…or did we?

This past Saturday morning, a very lively, completely spontaneous conversation started on Twitter.

The topic: the level of professionalism in real estate.

The conversation gained momentum and grew to encompass the individuals listed below…and then it shifted over to Facebook…and then it continued on Sunday back on Twitter…and then it spilled over into Google Wave, in two different places. When I powered down on Sunday night, the conversation was still rolling loud and strong.

I felt it might be interesting to recount this conversation in a blog post, because this is a classic illustration of why I love Twitter. Further, several people who joined the conversation in process said they wished they had joined in from the start.

As a prefacing comment about how I wrote this post, if you use Twitter, you already know that conversations don’t happen in perfect chronological sequence, particularly when a lot of people are involved. As a result, I took certain liberties in terms of editing to attempt to present topic threads in a logical sequence, and to order the comments in a way that would be readily followed and understood by anyone who is not familiar with the way Twitter looks, feels and threads. I apologize in advance if my editing is not “perfect” in the eyes of any of the people referenced herein.

@Swanepoel Agreed we need 2raise bar, but how do we do that on a national game changing way, rather than 1 at a time

@AndreaRealtor Top needs to be a stronger Natl Assoc that has more of a forward vision w/ability for rapid change

@JimDuncan We raise the bar by telling the NAR leadership that we want to raise the bar. If we’re silent…

@JimDuncan They will continue to ignore the demands to raise the level of professionalism

@KVBuckley We raise the bar by being the utmost professionals ourselves thus leading by example

@Swanepoel Good but not enough 2 change industry

@Swanepoel We need million man march online

@ProfessionalOne Million Man March Online? I LOVE IT! GREAT IDEA! Raise professionalism NOW :: http://cli.gs/2QWG9R

@Swanepoel Great, need a total mindset changer such min. requirements is GRI 2b member or all Realtors must take specialist course py

@ProfessionalOne Interesting that you should ask! I just wrote a blog post posing these same questions based on your response on Twitter last nite

@ProfessionalOne Will be publishing that post on P1Fran.com on Mon/Tues. Many other posts there dealing w this very topic :: http://cli.gs/hvTgyB

@Swanepoel Agreed in principle with what we have do but how do we get everyone’s attention to hear the message and take seriously

@ProfessionalOne That’s like turning a supertanker. BUT external forces will push industry, and YOU need to keep preaching your message.

@ProfessionalOne Agree – MUCH MORE is needed in terms of RULES, BARRIER TO ENTRY, EDUCATIONAL REQ’S. #GETPROFESSIONAL

@JimDuncan We don’t need (or want) everyone. Just Leadership. And they need to LEAD

@ProfessionalOne Here’s a way to increase professionalism in real estate: create some REAL rules :: http://cli.gs/anGbZ. We need more guidance

@RealEstateChick You can’t get everyone’s attention that’s why you have to forge your own path with people who agree

@Swanepoel Understood, but making things better is cool

@RealEstateChick Agree that making things better is fab. There will always b those that won’t change. How much time do u invest?

@Swanepoel It’s a HUGE undertaking by MANY for YEARS

@RealEstateChick The “machine” is too big and has been on auto-pilot for too long. Not worth the effort 2 try 2 change. IMO

@Swanepoel Agreed, but we must always try!!

@RealEstateChick Try – yes. Spend more time appealing to the early adapters – definitely. The herd may or may not follow eventually

@ProfessionalOne A company has to rise up & raise the bar itself and force others to follow. Exactly what we’re trying to do right now

@ProfessionalOne Changed economics & public being fed up will force industry in right direction. Much > turbulence ahead. Keep leading us, boss!

@JimDuncan We don’t need (or want) everyone. Just Leadership. And they need to LEAD

@Swanepoel Agreed, 2 many just don’t lead enough

@ToddWaller Whether or not herd follows, the consumer will stand up and notice, and THAT is what matters

@Swanepoel Good point, if done on big scale

@ProfessionalOne Excellent point. Low Realtor trust rankings + massive shift toward tech + rise of SM + lots of stale brands = Bumpy Road Ahead

@ProfessionalOne Sounds a lot like something a really smart person I know blogged about recently :: http://cli.gs/Vh4tp :: In case U missed

@RealEstateChick The consumer needs to be educated as well. They have no idea how we work. Don’t see us as pros.

@ToddWaller Draw consummate professionals into their ranks. Why we do what we do…

@ToddWaller Need a louder, larger, educational mouthpiece to break thru the chatter to consumers

@ProfessionalOne The herd may never get it. Which just means we may end up with a much smaller herd. That’s OK.

@ToddWaller …end up with a much smaller herd. That’s OK. Evolution in RE? Darwin Awards?!

@AndreaRealtor What disturbs me is we all belong to an Association? It should start there. Their only strength is in lobby/advocacy

@Professional One I don’t even waste time thinking on that level. That’s how we have an 8 page rulebook. ‘nuf said!

@ToddWaller It’s almost as if we should create a “rule book” & publicize it http://cli.gs/anGbZ

@Swanepoel I like that idea!

@RealEstateChick Yes! a “rule book” with tangible ENFORCEABLE rules not just suggestions.

@RealEstateChick Agree. Dont nec think it is the current “mouthpiece” though not w/o radical change.

@ProfessionalOne I think the supertanker analogy is a good one. Too much momentum in the wrong direction. Hard to change ways & views.

@ToddWaller Higher standards would naturally thin the herd. Survival of the fittest, etc. ya know?

@ProfessionalOne SM allows like-minded people to connect in ways heretofore unimaginable. Think if they all got together…. Hmmm…

@JimDuncan A petition to speak to the NAR Leadership may be in order. Force them to listen

@Swanepoel Just posted you a comment on your blog.

@ProfessionalOne Thank you – I obviously agree 100% :: http://cli.gs/2QWG9R

@ProfessionalOne And the more that we TALK abt this openly on Twitter, etc the more the issue is pushed to the fore. Issue will gain inertia.

@Thehousekatt Changing the course also means educating the public: have to understand what they should expect and they should demand it

@MIRealEstate Raise the bar by only hiring professionals ourselves thus leading by example.

@Thehousekatt This year NE Realtors Assoc has a License Law Task Force to talk about raising the bar. How high? Don’t know

@Swanepoel We need more knowledge-based courses that enable real skill building

@ProfessionalOne Blog post coming in a moment. Decided to accelerate publishing because of this discussion

@RealEstateChick We need a new something. Our “system” is broken.

@Swanepoel Need 2 propose replacement

@ProfessionalOne New Blog Post at P1Fran.com :: When @Swanepoel Talks… http://cli.gs/8pWra :: I knew I wrote this today for a reason!

@Swanepoel Wow you’ve put me on the spot. OK lets blog.

@Swanepoel When Swanepoel Talks… | Professional One Franchising http://cli.gs/vU3ED

@ProfessionalOne It’s the conversation that will spark the thinking, and the thinking that will spark the change. We need to start this fire

@RealEstateChick Time to start a (non-violent) revolution!

@RealLifeSheri There is an extreme lack of real training

@Swanepoel So true!

@MmPurple Biggest problem I see is broker not seeing the need in his own agents. Raise the bar!

@JohnSellsHomes To raise bar: if NAR won’t listen then they only want quantity (members) and not quality (professionals).

Then the conversation took on a whole new life, when Stefan posted a link to my blog post on his Facebook Fan Page.

Then, as I was about to post this on Sunday morning, the conversation started up all over again on Twitter. Here is a summary of that long thread:

@ProfessionalOne Illinois raising the bar for real estate PROFESSIONALS :: http://budurl.com/3mag :: via @AndreaRealtor :: YES, YES, YES!

@AndreaRealtor I do have to credit Gary Clayton and many on his team at @ILREALTOR. It was not easy.

@ProfessionalOne And, WADR, I would argue that the changes – while good – were not nearly enough. MUCH MORE of a barrier needed.

@AndreaRealtor I would agree with you but it is a start. Where the market is now it will help weed out some on the fence w/2010-1 renewal

@MayREGuru Gotta print something for a client then I will tell you WHY I said there is no Universal solutn

@MayaREGuru So, why can’t there be a universal solution you asked? Because it is not a universal business.

@ProfessionalOne How is it not a universal business? And why ARE medicine, law and accounting “universal” businesses?

@MayaREGuru Training? The universities that train docs etc are accepted board accredited programs, not the same in RE…

@MayaREGuru State by state, region by region, laws that govern change by state. I think better question is HOW is it Universal?

@ProfessionalOne Throw it all out and start from zero. I know, that will never happen. And that’s why RE will NEVER be a real profession.

@ProfessionalOne What we’re going to end up doing is rearranging deck chairs on a number of Titanics. That’s what Illinois just did, IMHO.

@MayaREGuru Well, I don’t see that that can ever happen, throw it out and start form zero, the COE is supposed to be the higher standrd

@MayaREGuru But unless public opinion changes, nothing will change, I think everyone strives for the same goal, but 2 be too idealistic

@TomRoyce What if 1 small state made regulations like you want as an example? Would the industry freak or adapt?

@ProfessionalOne Freak

@MayaREGuru Won’t benefit anyone, we just each have to raise the bar, to reach a higher level, and strive for the superior service…

@MayaREGuru For our clients, and recognize that we are Professionals, and we are trained and qualified. Perhaps states need to…

@MayaREGuru Make their individual standards for licensing more stringent, or test harder. Delaware requires 99 course house, 15 ceu’s

@TomRoyce 1 shining example of excellence can morph a whole industry

@AndreaRealtor Interesting that Prez Elect & a past prez @Chicagorealtors & @ILREALTOR engaged in this conversation on FB. Leadership?

@MayaREGuru And I don’t see where things are beyond repair, why do you think that?

@ProfessionalOne I say “beyond repair” b/c of huge gap in professionalism b/t RE & what I exp’d in public acc’g, which had REAL barrier 2 entry.

@JimDuncan See the PDF at bottom of this post – http://bit.ly/8JZ7KW – licensing standards by state

@ProfessionalOne U have to have 1500 hrs of pre-licensure training to cut hair in Michigan. Does THAT answer your question?

@JimDuncan What are your thoughts on broker-only states?

@TomRoyce Good as long as standard does not slip.

@ProfessionalOne We’ll just have to agree to disagree. RADICAL change is needed :: http://cli.gs/anGbZ & http://cli.gs/2QWG9R

@MattRathbun More hours of training won’t be effective unless it’s QUALITY education.

@MattRathbun There needs 2 B a 1 year full time internship & THEN a difficult test b4 working w/client

@MayaREGuru I like that idea but then you are saying it become a primary out of college career

@ProfessionalOne That is EXACTLY what I think. Real estate is a HUGE investment for most people. They should be served by EXPERTS.

@TomRoyce Accountants are more like doctors, RE agents are more like attorneys. Fixed rate vs contingency

@TomRoyce People do not respect attorneys much either even with BAR and ethics panels.

@MayaREGuru Are you comparing Apples to Apples? I think not. I think you need to have a different level of expectations…

@MayaREGuru Then you won’t be disappointed

@ProfessionalOne I refuse to lower my expectations. What we do is too important. The public deserves so much more than what they get from us.

@MayaREGuru I don’t disagree with you, my standards/expectations are higher, but you have to start at a realistic pt and not be…

@MayREGuru disappointed but instead be a catalyst for change, which you are, but you have 2 also have a positive outlook on profession

@mokukai Utah raised licensing hours from 90 to 120 & CE from 12 to 18 hours. It’s C of E enforcement that we need…

@mokukai U have to have 1500 hrs of pre-licensure training to cut hair in Michigan. Does THAT answer your question?

@ProfessionalOne Decks chairs on the Titanic. Not nearly enough. Thanks for RTing exactly what I wanted to say here!

@RealLifeSheri It is as much the required training after getting license. After 17 yrs & 2000+ transactions I’ve seen how how it can go

@ProfessionalOne And I don’t disagree w being realistic. But adding 40 more hours to “no barrier to entry” isn’t much better than what we had.

@MattRathbun Do MD’s, Atty & CPA sit around & ask if they are more like RE agents? We’re just different

@MayaREGuru And that is WHY we need to self-police, be the catalysts, not enough people do… but the public perception is a problem

@mokukai Too many do it for “fun” or part time. It’s a full time job. What about minimum transactions to stay licensed?

@RealLIfeSheri It wouldn’t hurt us 2 lose 500k Realtors doubling sales of those that should be selling & it we’d be a better industry 4 it

@ProfessionalOne I think the public’s perception is spot on. And THAT’S why we need to shake things up before it’s too late.

@MayaREGuru Hmm, I don’t agree, I would say I see mostly true solid Professionals in my market, and the public perception is antiquated

@ProfessionalOne And I am truly glad that U experience professionalism in Ur market. I don’t think that’s the predominant condition in America.

@RealLifeSheri As responsibilities of agents have increased the amount of knowledge in those arenas have not kept up. #marketing #internet

@MayaREGuru That is the Broker/Ownere hiring problem, only hire FT professionals and that problem ceases to exist. There are

@MayaREGuru Few companies in my market that seem to specialize in filling desks, not professionalism.

@ProfessionalOne You have my utmost respect for speaking your mind. DO NOT let what any1 else says curtail your passion.

@MayaREGuru I appreciate that, but sometimes it is best to bring about change from the inside and proper channels, which is my plan.

@RealLifeSheri I am glad 2 c someone shaking it up. I hope it is a movement that gains traction & gets everyone’s attention

@MayaREGuru Yes, a bad apple exists here or there, and with the leadership of our new President John W. Ford at #NCCBOR we are working

@MayaREGuru toward more solid self policing… he has said “Let the flood gates open.”

@mokukai There will always be that shop that fills desks…the consumer is part of the problem too – choosing cheap…

@mokukai I have to run…sorry. This is a great thread though! Better C of E enforcement starts at local level!!!

@MayaREGuru Requiring minimum transactions risks lowering the standard/quality, and you get into trouble with that imo

@mokukai Too many are afraid to do duty and enforce C of E…Should be like military academies – violation not to report!

@mokukai Argghhh I gotta go…but don’t want to…I’ll have to check this thread later today. Great discussion you two!

@mattwilkins Interesting convo. Listened to a heated debate at an association meeting about # of ppl in biz ($ vs standards)

@RealLifeSheri I may ruffle a few feathers but I think their needs 2 b a standard 4 RE trainer. Its starts at the top.

@KarenFreeman Interesting conversation between @ProfessionalOne & @MayaREguru. I’m not in RE but both of you are right about the public… My 2cts worth!

@MayaREGuru Thank you I appreciate your chiming in.

@JimDuncan W/o an apprenticeship/experience, education is not *nearly* as valuable

@MattRathbun Real Estate pre-license ed is almost impossible to internalize without practical, hands on experience.

@ProfessionalOne That’s EXACTLY how I feel! The training was 95% USELESS. NOTHING practical involved.

@TobyBoyce I’m in (from what I’ve been able to pick up of the conversation) though I might need cliff notes 2 get up 2 spd

@ProfessionalOne Writing a blog post that actually summarizes all the Tweets written yesterday that were a precursor to this conversation today.

@TobyBoyce Excellent

@JohnDMcClung Apprenticeship = sense. Current 40 hrs, test 8hours COE & MLS

@MattRathbun So IL wants to increase the ineffective education? It also has a very low retention rate for online/at home study.

@MattRathbun I’m writing a blog post abt the Illinois *change* right now. Another deck chair exercise.

@MattRathbun Good pre-license education is needed but it’s not the answer to a better prepared agent and doesn’t resolve laziness

@ProfessionalOne Now you’re back to my barrier to entry issue. Needs to be some educational threshold to get over. Needs to be tall.

@JimDuncan 1) Define “professional” 2) make becoming a professional an *achievement* #RTB

@MattRathbun I honestly think MOST are professional, but the minority seem to stand out.

@ProfessionalOne Then why does the public have such a low opinion of us? Are they wrong?

@ProfessionalOne Today’s conversation about professionalism in real estate even bigger than yesterday’s! The power of Social Media at work!

@JimDuncan Consumers interact w/ agents once every 7 years. Bad experiences fester. Chances of meeting bad more than good

@ProfessionalOne Disagree. Even though U R correct abt frequency, EVERY1 knows MANY Realtors. Opinions form that way as well.

@TomRoyce Perception and Professionalism must go hand in hand, otherwise failure.

@GinaKay What to do with the many who don’t have the training you speak of? Require go to college within x years to receive degree?

@ProfessionalOne No, wouldn’t be fair. I don’t think we penalize ppl already in the biz. Just create a real barrier to entry going forward.

@GinaKay There are degrees now specific to real estate – perhaps that’s what @ProfessionalOne is implying is needed?

@GinaKay I don’t think what we do is unimportant. Where is the education available TODAY so people can prepare 4 TOMORROW?

@GinaKay Question is also – are agents becoming primarily transaction functionaries? Mini-lawyers, if you will? Is a law degree nec?

@GinaKay I don’t think it would be penalizing them – wd b bringing up to the bar that is being hoisted, particularly younger agents.

@GinaKay If barrier to entry for new agents, people may claim protection for those already in biz if nothing req’d for existing.

@TomRoyce Social media is hastening the perception vs reality failure rate by magnifying it.

@TomRoyce Do accountants, doctors, and lawyers business cards look like RE agents cards? Why?

@TobyBoyce I don’t think college should ever be a prerequisite to being an agent. Apples/Oranges. (I have an MBA)

@ProfessionalOne Disagree. What we do is very important. We provide a service that is every bit as valuable as a CPA, for example.

@MattRathbun I take a listing for $500,000 if they only net $475,000 are they really going to feel that we’re superstars?

@JohnDMcClung Ultimately the market decides, but our tolerance of the non professional agent doesn’t provide good choices.

@JohnDMcClung Whether a few or many non professionals in our business, our tolerance confuses the public as they get exposed

@GinaKay Oop! Gotta go do lunch. Great convo, @TobyBoyce, @mattrathbun, @ProfessionalOne, @RealLifeSheri and others!

@mokukai In UT to be bail bonds or PI you have to serve as an apprentice…I like the RE idea!

@mokukai It’s a great disussion…I plan to raise the issue with my associates in the NAR Leadership Academ in 2 wks

@mokukai Too many to mention, but yes we should seek a NAR initiatve called “Raise the Bar” #RTB

@MayREGuru It is beyond NAR, this is legislation we are talking #re #rtb

@JimDuncan NAR & RPAC have power. They *could* get it done. If they tried.

@MayaREGuru Good pt. Lobby is powerful

@MayaREGuru Wheels in motion gentlemen, making calls already

@nobuhata I wish I would “favorite” a discussion. Thanks for the enlightenment.

@ProfessionalOne Your wish is my command. Blog post coming w complete thread…

@FrancesFlynnTho Excellent post! Professionalism in real estate at scandalous low ebb. Change will be forced upon RE IMHO http://ow.ly/UPS6

@FrancesFlynnTho We should seek a NAR initiative called “Raise the Bar” #RTB

@Swanepoel Great name for our project – has my vote: “Raise the Bar” #RTB

@DarinPersinger Do you want a true change or an image make over? Don’t need NAR for the first

@Swanepoel No makeover pls. Real change!!!

@MayaREGuru Agreed, I think it is governmental/legislative but RPAC is powerful so NAR helps

@FrancesFlynnTho NAR will pay lip service, not more

@Swanepoel Understand comment about NAR. Agree not as driver but as a partner. They r major player.

@RealLifeSheri NAR is just communication tool 2 reach gov/leg 2 change policy & masses of agents.

@DarinPersinger You are right about NAR biz model, but also that state licenses and of course re brokerage models – Agent Count = $ #RTB

@FrancesFlynnTho Where is there even a HINT that NAR supports meaningful change in any measure?

@JimDuncan NAR is an enemy. More members = more income

@SusieBlackmon Oh my! Problem w/State and Local Boards ~ Led by the dinosaurs who don’t even check email daily. #RTB

@mokukai Blown away how much #RTB thread has grown in an hour. Grateful to be part of discussion…Thanks to @ProfessionalOne @mayaREguru @swanepoel